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		Earl
 
 
  Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 677 Location: Victoria, KS
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 2:19 am    Post subject: May 11 VH | 
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				This one offers alternate routes.
 
 
Solution:  x-wing (3), then xy-wing (269);  or an xy-chain beginning at R8C2 to R4C6, extended to R3C5 eliminates the <6> in R3C2 for a single step solution.
 
 
 
Early Earl | 
			 
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		Marty R.
 
 
  Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 5770 Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:16 am    Post subject:  | 
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				I used what I'll call a 1-1/2 step solution.
 
 
 	  | Quote: | 	 		  | XY-Wing on 239 and then a pincer transport | 	 
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		crunched
 
 
  Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 168
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 5:37 am    Post subject:  | 
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				I think below shows the grid after basics are removed.
 
 
 	  | Code: | 	 		  
 
+----------+-------------+----------+
 
| 5 4  69  | 169 3   169 | 2  7   8 |
 
| 8 2  39  | 7   49  459 | 1  345 6 |
 
| 1 36 7   | 256 246 8   | 35 345 9 |
 
+----------+-------------+----------+
 
| 2 7  5   | 8   69  69  | 4  1   3 |
 
| 6 1  8   | 23  24  234 | 59 59  7 |
 
| 3 9  4   | 15  7   15  | 8  6   2 |
 
+----------+-------------+----------+
 
| 7 5  23  | 4   8   29  | 6  39  1 |
 
| 4 36 236 | 129 129 7   | 39 8   5 |
 
| 9 8  1   | 36  5   36  | 7  2   4 |
 
+----------+-------------+----------+
 
 | 	  
 
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
  Last edited by crunched on Mon May 11, 2009 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total | 
			 
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		crunched
 
 
  Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 168
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 5:50 am    Post subject:  | 
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				I also found an x wing on 1s (rows 1 & 6). That opened up a 239 xy wing.  But I did not see the xy wing that Earl found. Nor did I solve the puzzle. LOL
 
 
 	  | Marty R. wrote: | 	 		  I used what I'll call a 1-1/2 step solution.
 
 
 	  | Quote: | 	 		  | XY-Wing on 239 and then a pincer transport | 	 
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		George Woods
 
 
  Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 304 Location: Dorset UK
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:22 am    Post subject: a not v elegant solution! | 
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				Using the grid given by crunched , I found the XY wing(239) that eliminates the 9 from r2c6. But so What?. Looked hard at the 45 at r2c6 and realised that a 4 kills the 9 at r1c4so r8c4 is9, and a 5 at releases the triplet 236 in col 4 that makes r8c4 9. So r8c4 is 9. Now look again and see that the XY wing wasn't needed for this logic . Use the ALS? set 36 23 and 256 in col 4 . If r3c4 is not 5 then r8c4 is 9, and if it is 5 the the 49 pair in Box2 mean that r8c4 is 9.
 
 
So having done all that I went to draw/play and used the hints to see how the "official" solution went- Wow a 9 at r8c4! So something close to my barbaric solution is the "official" one! | 
			 
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		arkietech
 
 
  Joined: 31 Jul 2008 Posts: 1834 Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				Needed two steps: 	  | Quote: | 	 		  x-wing 3
 
xy-wing 269 | 	 
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		tlanglet
 
 
  Joined: 17 Oct 2007 Posts: 2468 Location: Northern California Foothills
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				 	  | Marty R. wrote: | 	 		  I used what I'll call a 1-1/2 step solution.
 
 
 	  | Quote: | 	 		  | XY-Wing on 239 and then a pincer transport | 	 
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Marty, I like your new definition! I also solved the puzzle in 1-1/2 steps but used a pincer pseudo-cell. Should my move be called a 1-1/2 + 1/4 = 1-3/4?
 
 
xy-wing 369 with pivot 36 in r3c2 and pseudo-cell 69 in row8; transport 9 r8c7 to r1c4 via r8c4 to complete the puzzle.
 
 
Ted | 
			 
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		Ema Nymton
 
 
  Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 89
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: a not v elegant solution! | 
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				.
 
 
The recent spate of VH Sudoku seem to be exercises in minutiae.
 
 
 	  | George Woods wrote: | 	 		  Using the grid given by crunched , I found the XY wing(239) that eliminates the 9 from r2c6. But so What?. Looked hard at the 45 at r2c6 and realised that a 4 kills the 9 at r1c4so r8c4 is9, and a 5 at releases the triplet 236 in col 4 that makes r8c4 9. So r8c4 is 9. Now look again and see that the XY wing wasn't needed for this logic . Use the ALS? set 36 23 and 256 in col 4 . If r3c4 is not 5 then r8c4 is 9, and if it is 5 the the 49 pair in Box2 mean that r8c4 is 9.
 
 
So having done all that I went to draw/play and used the hints to see how the "official" solution went- Wow a 9 at r8c4! So something close to my barbaric solution is the "official" one! | 	  
 
 
Is this not a fancy way of saying you guessed? ...
 
 
Much of the bragging going on here seems to be being done in an absence of reason/logic.   As posted, after being crunched, 
 
 
The basic puzzle has no visible "239" in and cell.
 
The basic puzzle has no visible triplet 236 in col 4 
 
 
I am sorry for raining on any one's parade.  I have not solved this one and am frustrated.
 
 
 
~@:o?
 
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		Kdelle
 
 
  Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 59 Location: Hudson, NH
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				| Never mind......Brain cramp! | 
			 
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		storm_norm
 
 
  Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 1741
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				George Woods wrote: 	  | Quote: | 	 		  | Use the ALS? set 36 23 and 256 in col 4 . If r3c4 is not 5 then r8c4 is 9, and if it is 5 the the 49 pair in Box2 mean that r8c4 is 9.  | 	  
 
 
George,
 
I like your logic.
 
can I assume that you found the hidden single 1 at r8c5 which makes r8c4 {2,9}?
 
if this is the case then, if you don't mind, I can translate into a chain.
 
 
 	  | Code: | 	 		  .---------------.---------------.---------------.
 
| 5    4    69  |16-9  3    169 | 2    7    8   |
 
| 8    2    39  | 7   *49  *459 | 1    345  6   |
 
| 1    36   7   |*256  246  8   | 35   345  9   |
 
:---------------+---------------+---------------:
 
| 2    7    5   | 8    69   69  | 4    1    3   |
 
| 6    1    8   |*23   24   234 | 59   59   7   |
 
| 3    9    4   | 15   7    15  | 8    6    2   |
 
:---------------+---------------+---------------:
 
| 7    5    23  | 4    8    29  | 6    39   1   |
 
| 4    36   236 |*29   1    7   | 39   8    5   |
 
| 9    8    1   |*36   5    36  | 7    2    4   |
 
'---------------'---------------'---------------' | 	  
 
np = naked pair
 
nt = naked tripe
 
 
np(49)r2c56 = (5)r2c6 - (5)r3c4 = nt(236)r359c4 - (2)r8c4 = (9)r8c4; r1c4 <> 9 | 
			 
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		Marty R.
 
 
  Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 5770 Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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				 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				 	  | Quote: | 	 		  Much of the bragging going on here seems to be being done in an absence of reason/logic. As posted, after being crunched,
 
 
The basic puzzle has no visible "239" in and cell.
 
The basic puzzle has no visible triplet 236 in col 4
 
 
I am sorry for raining on any one's parade. I have not solved this one and am frustrated.  | 	  
 
 
Ema,
 
 
If you are referring to my and other references to a 239 XY-Wing, it is indeed present in Crunched's grid.
 
 
The 239 designation does not mean a cell with those three numbers. It is a standard method of describing an XY-Wing that consists of three cells, 23-29-39. In the grid above it can be found in r7c3, r7c6 and r2c3. The pincers of 9 remove the 9 from r2c6, after which the 9 from r2c3 can be transported to r4c5 (via r2c5) and the new pincers remove the 9 from r4c6. | 
			 
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		swando
 
 
  Joined: 09 Mar 2009 Posts: 22 Location: Surrey, BC. Canada
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				 Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 7:42 am    Post subject:  | 
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				This were I got with the basics and then used a 269 to eliminate the 9 in R 1 C4 and that did it.
 
 
[code]
 
+---------+-------------+----------+
 
| 5 4  69 | 169 3   169 | 2  7   8 |
 
| 8 2  39 | 7   49  459 | 1  345 6 |
 
| 1 36 7  | 256 246 8   | 35 45  9 |
 
+---------+-------------+----------+
 
| 2 7  5  | 8   69  69  | 4  1   3 |
 
| 6 1  8  | 23  24  234 | 59 59  7 |
 
| 3 9  4  | 15  7   15  | 8  6   2 |
 
+---------+-------------+----------+
 
| 7 5  23 | 4   8   29  | 6  39  1 |
 
| 4 36 26 | 29  1   7   | 39 8   5 |
 
| 9 8  1  | 36  5   36  | 7  2   4 |
 
+---------+-------------+----------+ | 
			 
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		Ema Nymton
 
 
  Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 89
 
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				 Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				.
 
 
Thank you for the help.  It is very helpful.  
 
 
 	  | Marty R. wrote: | 	 		   	  | Quote: | 	 		  Much of the bragging going on here seems to be being done in an absence of reason/logic. As posted, after being crunched,
 
 
The basic puzzle has no visible "239" in and cell.
 
The basic puzzle has no visible triplet 236 in col 4
 
 
I am sorry for raining on any one's parade. I have not solved this one and am frustrated.  | 	  
 
 
Ema,
 
 
If you are referring to my and other references to a 239 XY-Wing, it is indeed present in Crunched's grid.
 
 
The 239 designation does not mean a cell with those three numbers. It is a standard method of describing an XY-Wing that consists of three cells, 23-29-39. In the grid above it can be found in r7c3, r7c6 and r2c3. The pincers of 9 remove the 9 from r2c6, after which the 9 from r2c3 can be transported to r4c5 (via r2c5) and the new pincers remove the 9 from r4c6. | 	  
 
 
 
~@:o?
 
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